Ute pointed to a “culture clash” between design, technology, clinical practice and other healthcare professions – “but what often is also the case is that we have a common purpose, which is to make it better and make sure it is patient-centred, and that people get what they need.

“This can lead to a healthy tension between all these professions and how they work differently. Clinicians can be very risk averse, and that’s a good thing. But in design and technology we depend on a bit of risk. We need to experiment – we’re introducing new things. What is important to improve collaboration is that shared purpose and common definition of patient-centred care.”

Jamie said that in Denmark, user-centred design is referred to as ‘equity by design,’ understanding that all users aren’t the same. “Actually, it’s about designing services that work for individuals as opposed to an amorphous blob of the user, which is quite an interesting concept when you apply that to products, services, or end-to-end systems and pathways.”

Murray said that: “to get the right patient in front of the right clinician every time, there’s going to be an inherent efficiency in doing that using traditional systems. But we estimate about 30% of patients are sitting in the wrong queue for healthcare. They’re either waiting to see a GP when they could be seeing a pharmacist or waiting to see a dermatologist when they could be dealt with by a GP.”

“If you can use technology to support and fix that, then it’s undoubtedly going to be helpful.

“You know clearly as a clinician that the patient sitting in front of you is at the centre of what you’re trying to do. But there’s a tension which we’ve got to deal with as a technology supplier, which is this: the clinician is a user as well. When you’re thinking about technology, you can’t just put the patient at the centre.

“If you go back to the example of GP appointment booking, that’s not patient-centred design. Historically, we made it very hard for a patient to come in and see us, if we’re honest. Waiting four weeks to go and see a GP for something is not a great user experience.

“What the patient would like is the ability to interact with their GP, either in person, on the phone or online at any time. And we’ve got to ask ourselves, is that achievable within the NHS today?”